Full transcript of the show:
Doe the geologic column exist, or not? We’re going to investigate this question on this episode of Genesis Week!
Welcome! To this episode of Genesis Week, the weekly program of creationary commentary on news, views and events pertaining to the origins controversy, made possible by the supporters of CORE Ottawa, Citizens for Origins Research and Education, and now carried on the Christianima network – christianima.com – Christian cinema at its finest. Excellence in pirate broadcasting, we bring you the information the anticreationists don’t want you to see or hear, and giving glory to our Creator while doing it. Remember if you get lost in cyberspace, you can just punch in wazooloo.com or genesisweek.com and you can find us, and also subscribe to our youtube channel to get extras like CrEvo rants and full interviews with our guests. I’m your host, Ian Juby
Some fascinating papers came out in the journal GEOLOGY the past couple of issues; the first one came out in the March issue adding to what has been a continual work in progress: constructing and refining the geologic column.
You’ve all seen pictures of the fictitious geologic column; usually you see it in schools and museums because that really is the only place they exist. Allegedly older rocks on the bottom, with the rocks getting younger and younger as you go higher in the column.
Well this most recent refinement – I love this – the Geological Society of America has claimed to be able to date parts of the time scale with precisions approaching 0.05% – boy that’s pretty precise! And you better believe ALL of those ages are vastly larger than the Biblical age of the earth! Well if sooo many scientists can be Soooo precise that the age of that rock is 3 BILLION years old, and not 6,000 years old, well the Bible just MUST be wrong right? I mean, how could so many scientists be so wrong?
Well lets put the claims of these scientists to the test, with a little bit of investigation, shall we?
Now when I say the geologic column does not exist except in textbooks and museum displays – I aint kidding. First of all, most places you find are like Grand Canyon. There are huge gaps of time in the rock record! Or, is it actually that it’s not the evidence of time that’s mysteriously gone missing, but actually the time itself is missing.
For instance, Dr. Derek Ager, a very outspoken anticreationist and world famous geologist, referred to Grand Canyon as “Surely the finest record of geological history anywhere on Earth” which had “huge breaks” of time.
Indeed, this model at the Big Valley Creation Science Museum in Alberta Canada shows where these alleged gaps of time are. REmember, neither I, nor the Big Valley Creation Science Museum believes these ages, we’re just repeating the ages the evolutionary geologists have claimed are missing. 480 million years absent between the basement and precambrian left no evidence behind; A combined 330 million years of assumed geologic time within and between the Unkar, Nankoweap and Chuar formations, somehow came and left without leaving a trace.
While the supergroup was supposed to have sat there for some 215 million years, during which time it was tilted, it was then cut by the Tapeats sandstone. That 215 million years left not a shred of evidence.
Right here it’s expected that there was 155 million years of deposition of dirt which somehow all vanished without any evidence of erosion.
The remains of the Surprise Canyon formation are supposed to represent 25 million years, again alleged to have eroded away while leaving behind no evidence.
The top layer of Grand Canyon is claimed to be 270 million years old, and tourists now walk around on this layer. 270 million years of geological deposits have been washed away. If we ignore Temple Butte and Suprise Canyon formations, we have a total of 1,295 million years of alleged geologic time that has gone missing. This all adds up to a staggering 81% of the geologic column which is ABSENT WITHOUT A TRACE in what was described as “Surely the finest record of geological history anywhere on earth.”
As you study geology, you will find this situation is the rule, not the exception. But it gets better than that. It would be assumed simple logic that the lower layers must be laid down first, in order for a layer to be laid down on top of it, right? And so therefore, technically the lower layer is older than the upper layers. But now we introduce the dating methods used by the evolutionary geologists to assign ages to those rock layers. Ages based upon evolutioanry theory. They use the fossils primarily to date the rocks, but sometimes those radiodating methods are used that we’ve discussed at great length, and which I cover in CrEvo Rant #100, dating methods.
So when we take the evolutionary ages assigned to the rocks, we notice some unusual situations.
At the entrance to Banff National Park in Canada, the first prominent mountain you see is Yamnuska. There’s a very unusual feature about Yamnuska – those 1,000 foot sheer cliff faces are made of limestone which is assigned an evolutionary age of 520 million years old. But it’s sitting on top of shale which is given an evolutionary age of 75 million years old.
Whoops! Obviously, this is a problem – unless there was some bizarre experiment gone wrong which transported an entire mountain into the future and set it down on top of younger rocks!
So the evolutionary geologists try to explain this away with what is called a “thrust fault.” They claim that during the formation of the Rocky mountains, the thousand foot thick layer of limestone slide up over top of the younger shales.
Alright – fair enough, one must certainly consider all possibilities. A hypothesis has been presented, let’s now put it to the test and make some predictions, shall we?
If you take your hand, and press down hard on say, a table, and force your hand across the table, your hand gets warm from the friction. Just that little bit of weight and pressure produces heat that you can physically feel. Now envision sliding 1,000 vertical feet of ROCK across the top of another rock. What is going to happen? The physics are actually quite easy to calculate. There will be so much heat produced that it will literally MELT ROCK.
Another feature you would see from the rock sliding over top of the other, is the actual balling and rolling the rocks, leaving mylonite which looks like this:
Yamnuska mountain was only one of seven different “thrust faults” that I had the privilege to study over the past few years. It’s a brutal hike, but you can go up that mountain and take a look for yourself. Here we are getting up to what we call the “contact” – where the limestone and the shale meet. As we get right at the contact, we see NO evidence that the rock is even DISCOLORED from heat, let alone melted. There is no mylonite visible.
Some suggest that perhaps the rock could have slid veeeeerrrrryyy slowly over top the others, so as to not produce heat – but that doesn’t work. This is basic physics. Have you ever pushed something heavy across the floor? Getting it started is the hard part – keeping it moving is quite a bit easier. The reason for this is because static or standing friction is greater than the friction of movement. In other words, it takes more force to start moving something from a standstill, then it does to keep it moving.
So if we apply this principle to our thousand foot thick slab of rock? If there was some kind of force that was pushing on the rock enough to start it moving? then that same force would suddenly move the rock in jumps – because once it starts moving, it has an excess of force to move the rock. you cannot move the rock slowly – plain and simple.
But – when rock slides across another rock, it leaves scratches which geologists call “Slickensides.” If you look closely at this polystrate fossil tree in Tennessee, what is hard to see if that the tree is actually bent over in the rocks at this overhang. But, obviously the rocks did not slide very far, relative to each other, right? I mean, there’s a fossil tree connecting the layers! Yet, though they are hard to see in this photo, slickensides were made from that little bit of movement.
Now lets take a look at the overhang at the contact of Yamnuska mountain; Notice no slickensides? In fact there was some minor interbedding of the shales and limestone, indicating they were formed at the same time.
Are we to believe that a 1,000 foot thick layer of rock slid several kilometers over top the other one without even so much as scratching the rocks? Or, is it more likely the ages given to the rocks are arbitrary fiction? and the thrust fault story is just that: And Ad hoc story that does not fit the facts.
But it gets better – this is Castle Mountain in Banff, another fine example of an alleged thrust fault, and an even more brutal climb if you want to do this. Again it is limestone resting on top of shales. The limestone cliffs jut up some 2,000 feet and are alleged to be some 600 million years old, while the shale they sit on is a mere 200 million years old.
Taking a hike up there and getting to the contact, it is actually difficult to discern where the two rocks meet! That’s how knife-edge the contact is. No evidence of melting or even heating of the rock. No Mylonite. So are we expected to believe that 2,000 feet of solid rock was shoved up several kilometers over top of the other, with no evidence whatsoever that this happened? Such an event would most definitely would have MELTED THE ROCK.
But let’s head down to Waterton Lakes National Park in Canada, which joins onto Glacier National Park in the US. Here we see another alleged thrust fault called the Lewis thrust, and the ages assigned to the rocks depend on who you ask, but typically it’s described at 1.1 BILLION year old rocks resting on top of allegedly 100 million year old rocks.
While I went there personally to examine the contact, you’ll notice that not only are there no slickensides or evidence of extreme heating, the rocks themselves on the Waterton side are folded in unison, even with minor interbedding or interfingering between the layers. There is no mylonite here.
In fact the pro-evolution, anti-creation website talkorigins even inadvertantly admits that the slickensides are absent by saying that “some” of the rocks have slickensides. Yes, undoubtedly there are in some areas, though I saw none where Vance Nelson and I studied. But that just indicates a very localized movement from all the mountain folding and what not. ALL of the contact should have prominent slickensides, extreme heating and even melting of the rocks, and mylonite, had they actually slid across each other for the 100 kilometers or so that is suggested. I’m certainly open to the idea of a thrust fault, but I want to see evidence of such a sliding event. Of the seven thrust faults I have had the privilege of studying, only one sorta kinda had evidence that may be interpreted as sliding, and yet other areas of the same fault showed zero evidence of sliding.
What we have here are layers that are out of sequence, evolutionarily speaking. There are HUNDREDS Of these in North America alone. I’ve only studied seven thus far. If even ONE was a genuine reversal, it would invalidate the geologic column, and ultimately, evolutionary theory. So far out of seven, I’ve determined at least six of them are genuine out of sequence layers, with no evidence of thrust faulting, and that lack of evidence has even been noted in the secular literature. These are not thrust faults, they are invalidations of the fictitious geologic column, and deep time.
I know I shouldn’t be, but once again I was kind of astonished at the angry and insulting accusations hurled at myself and fellow creationists on the Genesis Week facebook page this week. Nothing that a good permanent ban didn’t fix, but once again I taken aback by the number of people who were hurling insults surrounding the flat earth. Not that I’m astonished that these people think I believe in a flat earth, as there is a reason the flat earth myth made it to the #1 spot of historical myths compiled by the Historical Society of London. But I was amazed that once again these atheists, even when I corrected their ignorance and showed them my CrEvo Rant #271 from YEARS ago, instead of just conceding that they’d made a mistake, instead insisted on being more aggressive in their stance on this LIE, and hurling more insults. Seeing as how the subject of the flat earth has come up soooo many times on the Genesis Week facebook page in particular, I thought we would take a trip down memory lane and revisit the flat earth myth with CrEvo Rant #271.
Whenever you read the comments on
youtube, or letters to the editor about
those annoying creationists, and sometimes
even in live creation/evolution debates,
you’ll notice a curious consistency that
comes out of the atheists and anti-creationists
First: they will treat anybody who dares to
question evolution as though they have the
IQ of a stick. They will then follow up with a
series of questions specifically designed to
be as condescending and insulting as possible.
Questions that, ironically, have the IQ of a stick
questions like “are you going question gravity
now?” or “oh, do you also think the earth is flat?”
You know – questions that have absolutely
nothing to do with creation and evolution!
One might wonder why they are asking questions
that have nothing to do with creation & evolution
Do I detect a distraction here?
heh heh – I wish I had a dollar for every time
an atheist asked me if I thought the earth
was flat – I’d have my museum paid off
by now! I don’t believe the earth is flat,
infact, I can’t think of any self-respecting Christian
or creationist who thinks the earth is flat!
But how many of you were taught in school
that Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean
blue in order to prove that the earth was
actually round, and not flat?
He wanted to show up the clergy and the
church of the day and prove them wrong,
because they insisted that the earth was flat
– in fact the clergy and the church of the day
had his crew so scared that they were afraid
that if they sailed too far, they would sail off
the edge of the earth. How many of you
remember that story from school?
Well guess what? That story is complete
and utter RUBBISH.
An urban legend.
This myth made it to #1 on the top 10 list of
historical myths as acknowledged by the
Historical Society of Britain!
In fact, with the exception of a few “fringe
believers” in the church and secular world,
everybody in Columbus’s day knew that the
earth was a sphere! In fact the Bible states,
in Isaiah 40:22 that the earth is round – so
where then did this story of Christopher
Columbus and the flat earth originate from?
Actually, it originated from atheists and
anti-creationists who were trying to attribute
the story to Christians and creationists to
slander them and make them look bad!
This is all well documented in historian Jeffery
Burton Russel’s book, “inventing the flat earth”
Russel summed up his book in his scathing
commentary at the American Scientific
The reason for promoting both the specific
lie about the sphericity of the earth and the
general lie that religion and science are in
natural and eternal conflict in Western
society, is to defend Darwinism….The flat
earth lie was ammunition against the creationists.
The argument was simple and powerful, if
not elegant: “Look how stupid these
Christians are. They are always getting in the
way of science and progress. These people
who deny evolution today are exactly the
same sort of people as those idiots who for
at least a thousand years denied that the
earth was round. How stupid can you get?”
And he closes with the statement,
“But that is not truth.”
The story of Columbus and the flat-earth was
first propagated in 1830 by two anti-church
authors: Antoine-Jean Letronne, and his
American contemporary, Washington Irving
Waitaminit: 1830 ?!?
You mean this lie has been propagated
for 180 years???
and yet still, even today, the atheists and
anti-creationists are taking this LIE – that they
concocted – and hurling it at Christians and
But should we really be surprised that this
lie is being propagated and foisted upon us
180 years later? Certainly not – this isn’t the
only myth being foisted on us in our
evolutionary indoctrination academ… I
mean our schools! Anybody remember the
name Ernst Haeckel?
Good’ol Ernst – first published his theory of
recapitulation with a fraudulent drawing in 1868
Within months his drawing was shown to be
fraudulent – yet, that same drawing still
appears in our high school and university
textbooks today, 140 years later!
140 years after being shown to be
But like the evolution myth, the flat earth
theory can be tested and falsified.
I’m here at Brimstone head, Fogo Island,
Newfoundland, acknowledge by the
flat earth society as one of the four corners
of the flat earth!
Definitely a drop-off, but it aint the edge
of the earth!
No edge of the earth here!
Nope – definitely don’t see an edge of the
earth here either!
It is easy to prove that the flat earth myth is
wrong: the evidence does not show that
the earth is flat, but rather that it is round.
Now most evolutionists that I know of
believe the theory of evolution much like
those who believe the flat earth: they’ve just
simply never heard the opposing evidence.
In fact with even a cursory examination,
evolution crumbles under the scientific
evidence. Yet, like those who believe in the
flat earth myth, many want to believe the
evolution myth simply because they want
it to be true. Our Creator – who visited planet
earth in a specially designed human body,
going by the name of Jesus Christ, even
responded to the theory of evolution because it
was around in His day. Yet just like in His day,
many will choose to believe the evolution myth
rather than the truth and the life Himself.
The one who rose from the dead to prove
that He was the truth and the life. Maybe
you should get to know the truth and the life
today? See ya next time!
Of course, the flat earth has absolutely nothing to do with the creation/evolution debate. So why did these atheists bring it up? And then vehemently defend it when it was shown to be a lie? While I recognize that not all atheists are like this, in this case it was pretty obvious that, once again, the science and the facts have nothing to do with what they want to believe. The historian Jeffrey Burton Russell who documented the flat earth myth can hardly be called a friend of Christians or Creationists, but he at least acknowledged the truth.
Stick around – we’ll be back with the mailbag right after this short break.
This show sponsored in part by Canada’s first permanent Creation Museum, in the heart of Alberta’s dinosaur beds, the Big Valley Creation Science Museum. bvcsm.com
And by Genesis Park.com where you can pre-order your own beautiful hard covered copy of the Chronicles of Dinosauria, the history and mystery of dinosaurs and man.
What does the Bible say about aliens? Is there life
on other planets? What can science tell us about the
possibility of aliens? Ian Juby gives answers to these
and many more questions in this fascinating and highly
disturbing subject. Looking analytically at the
subject, complete with testimonies of people who claim
to have been abducted by aliens. The answers will
probably surprise you. In this 1 and a half hour lecture,
Ian that the alleged “aliens” are a problems, and that
Jesus is the solution. Order on line today at Ian’s bookstore.
Piltdown Superman wrote in, talking about fast fossil dinosaur poo, called coprolite, which is quite prolific. There’s so much of it found in the fossil record that yes, you can buy it. This should immediately make one realize that fossilization does not take a long time. I usually hand my large piece of fossil coprolite around to the children and see if they can guess what it is. Once they find out, many of them are looking to wipe their hands somewhere, even it is now rock.
“I wanted to tell you about the time I entered a contest. It was a jewellry contest. I made jewellry out of coprolite. Didn’t win, but it came in turd.
Ha! I kill me!”
YouTuber Answersquestions1 posted an excellent question with regards to the dinosaur egg nests discussed in our “Eggsplained by the flood” episode:
Ían, cant these fossils be explained with local floods?”
Thanks for writing in, yes it is true that the nests certainly could be explained within the context of local floods. However, it is the geology of the layers the nests, eggs, and even dinosaurs buried alive still sitting on their nests that is revealing. As I mentioned briefly in the program, these layers extend to HUGE sizes; what are called provincially sized – and often they are at very high elevations too. And those layers are in parallel with other layers which are also provincial in size. And thus, this was no local flood, but flooding that produced HUGE, provincial sized tidal flats.
YouTuber SpiritusSancti777 wrote in:
“I always look forward to Fridays…because of this show.”
And complexadaptive responded with:
“So do I but more for the comedic value, for example “cold blooded mammals” and juby stating PERMAfrost thaws in the summer…too funny.”
Thanks for writing in, but the “cold blooded mammals” was a quote from a book; I was well aware that toads and frogs are not mammals, but Williams was not. And as for the permafrost thawing, I could have been clearer on my wording: The permafrost rapidly extends down hundreds to thousands of feet in weeks during the winter, and then thaws – deep underground. The surface is permafrost, yes, and thus never thaws out, but deep underground (which is what I was talking about) most certainly does freeze and thaw, and incredibly rapidly at that on the North Slope.
Okay, let’s call that a wrap – I’m your host, Ian Juby, signing off for now. Remember you can send in your comments, questions, feedback, and all your banking information to us in a number of ways: You can email us at email@example.com or you can send us a tweet @genesisweek or you go to genesisweek.com which is our youtube channel, find the most recent show and leave a comment there, or leave a comment on our facebook page.
Remember those words of warning from our Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, who said “I am the way, the truth, and the life! No man comes to the Father but through me” See you next week.
do you have the GPS coordinates for the “geologic column”, a model of which is at the Creation Museum. It is my understanding the site is on a coal seam in Morgan County near Frozen Head State Park (TN).